May 10, 2020 : Comments Galore!
Over the last week or so we have received several hundred messages and comments on the SCOI website.
Thanks to those who have shared thoughts and made constructive suggestions. We appreciate that many of you are accepting of the situation, supportive of the Band and the SFN community and patient enough/willing to wait this thing out at home. Many of you are frustrated, disappointed, even angry. Some messages have threatened legal action while others would easily be classified as bullying or racist. Some of you have been fined for going to your cottages.
Cottages are an emotional thing, and we accept that. Nobody wants to get to the cottage more than we do.
There have been way too many messages for us to post everything that is presentable. But we do want to acknowledge that we have received your input and appreciate that you have taken the time to contribute to our overall understanding of what SCOI members care about.
The main issues can be categorized into one of 5 themes
1. Premier Ford’s comments;
2. Confusion over the service fee and lease payment deadlines;
3. Local contractor access;
4. SCOI’s role; and,
5. Communication from the Band directly to cottage owners.
Over the past couple of weeks we have also received specific questions/comments that, at the time, were one-offs. They were asking something very specific and we have tried to answer these by communicating directly with the person making the submission.
We apologize that this post will be a bit long, but hope that, for us, it clears off a fair bit of the backlog and for you, helps you get caught up and not have to go fishing for information as it comes out in bits. So as of today, this is what we know or understand too be the situation.
1. Premier Ford's Comments
Over the past two weeks there has been a lot of press about Premier Ford telling cottage owners that it is OK for them to go to their cottage if they follow the guidelines – take everything with you, stay at your cottage and do not invite others to join you. We received a very large number of comments asking why this didn’t also apply to them and as many asking why the Band wouldn’t follow the Premier’s lead by opening up on the May long weekend.
The Saugeen First Nation falls under Federal jurisdiction and, unlike neighbouring municipalities, is not subject to Provincial edict. That is why the Band can fine people for coming to their cottage while adjoining municipalities cannot. From the outset the Band has taken its guidance from the Grey Bruce Medical Officer of Health and Dr Ara’s advice for cottagers has been consistent – Stay Home.
The Chief’s comments on Facebook yesterday suggested that the Band is looking at allowing cottagers to go to their cottages sometime in June. He quoted stats from the MOH that are creating this optimism. Grey Bruce has had no new cases of COVID19 in the past 4 days. All previous cases have been resolved and there are no hospitalizations.
And then this morning we received an e-mail for an SFN cottage owner who lives in Southampton. This what she wrote:
“The cottage driveways in Southampton & Sauble Beach not leased land/municipal properties all have cars even plural in driveways. No one is abiding by Ford’s request . A bunch of irresponsible dummies! We have cottager’s on our Street that pulled in last night from Windsor and London. I saw one just come back from shopping at our Independent in Port Elgin. So they didn’t bring their own supplies. What can you do?”
So if we have something to worry about, it is the large numbers of cottagers going to their cottages in the neighbouring municipalities who appear to be disregarding the guidelines.
The worry is not that they get to go and we don’t. The worry is that they are disregarding the guidelines. If there is a bump in the COVID19 cases in Grey Bruce because these people are being stupid, the Band is sure to keep their own cottagers away.
With SFN cottagers going to their cottages in spite of getting fined no one would blame the Band if it felt it could not trust its own cottagers to follow the guidelines. No one else seems to be.
Fingers crossed and let’s hope the Grey Bruce COVID19 stats stay where they are.
2. Confusion over Service Fee and Lease Payment deadlines
We received a large number of “acknowledgements” of our posts about the changes to due dates for both Lease payments and Service Fee payments. It turns out that there were no formal changes made to the due dates, other than Band Council’s 60 day extension for Service Fee payment which had been reported mush earlier.
Our assumption has been that the deadline was the due date appearing on the invoices we received.
The Band’s interpretation, at least this year when the offices are closed, is that payment can be made anytime during the month in which the payment is due.
So for this year the Lease payment must be in the Band’s hands by May31st and the Service Fee payment by June 30th.
We understand that most people worked hard to make sure they had their fees in on time and many of you could have used another month of grace period.
We have made a note for late winter 2021 February 2021), to check with the Band on the exact dates they expect to receive payment.
3. Local Contractor Access
The SOE (State of Emergency) restriction on contractors working on Band land was lifted yesterday by the Chief and Band Council (please see our May 8 post).
We are very appreciative of this decision as many cottagers had become concerned specifically about scheduled septic installations and other jobs they had contracted out.
There were many more concerned about being behind on yard maintenance. So local contractors are allowed to return to work on Band Lands, but cottagers cannot be there when the work is being done. We have posted a short list of yard maintenance and tree services contractors sent in by cottage owners. If there are others you would recommend please let us know.
A restriction for general plumbers is still in place because the Band does not yet want cottage water systems turned on. This is to prevent cottagers from assuming, if the water is on, they can go to the cottage.
We have received a number of comments about this, pointing out that it will take a 2-3 weeks for plumbers to turn all the cottage water systems on. So if plumbers are prevented from turning water systems on until cottagers can return, there will be a lot of people waiting a while for water even though they are now able to come back to their cottage.
We believe this is a valid comment and we have written to the Band to ask that Chief and Council review the need to give plumbers access 2-3 weeks before cottagers are allowed to return. It is basically a question of the Band trusting that cottagers will not return the minute their water is turned on.
So far cottagers that insist on going to their cottages without permission (and getting fined) are not helping us make our case. It would certainly be a good thing if everyone stayed home next weekend.
4. SCOI’s role
There have been quite a few cottagers take exception to SCOI’s role during this State of Emergency. We have declared that it is our role to liaise with the Band. This includes the Chief and Council as well as key members of the Band’s senior staff. At the outset we did advocate for those cottage owners with no other Canadian residence and the Band was very willing to allow them to remain in the their cottages as long as they adhered to quarantine/isolation and social distancing requirements. However, we have mostly been liaising with the Band to understand what they were asking of SFN cottagers. We in turn then did our best to communicate the Band’s directives and the implications of those directives to cottage owners.
Over the SOE period we have had cottage owners angry that we are not being more forceful in presenting a strong case for cottage owners to be allowed to return to their cottages. Previously we have said that we have not been and will not advocate for anything that would create a risk for the SFN community. All of the expert medical advice was for cottagers to stay home in communities better able to cope with a covid19 outbreak. SCOI not only accepted these recommendations but promoted them. We too see ourselves a members of the Saugeen community with a responsibility to help keep it safe. Basically SFN cottagers had a safer place to be than at their cottage. Safer for everyone. This was not about ‘me’. It was about ‘us’.
We have also had quite a few cottage owners suggesting that we should be asking cottagers to lobby their local MP for adjustments on the service fee and lease amount. Some have written to these folks on their own. We are not really sure why they think that was a good idea. Any previous outings SCOI has had with (then) Indian Affairs and the Department of Justice have gone nowhere and those were not with a Government more engaged in reconciliation that any of its predecessors. A more important consideration would be the impact that such an end run would have on the Band, on our relationship with the Band and what impression it might create in the last year of our current lease looking forward to either a lease extension or a new lease.
We know people are frustrated, but we need to give a little credit to the medical people who are providing the advice and to the Band leadership for knowing what is best for the Band. They are coping very well without SCOI beating on them.
That said, we advocate for cottagers every day. Yesterday it was for garbage collection for the cottagers who do have permission be at their cottages. Today it will be to get plumbers back on the job so we have water when we do get to go to the cottage.
5. Direct communication from the Band to Cottage owners
For a few years now SCOI has asked the Band to communicate more and directly with cottage owners. This has become more apparent in the last 2 or 3 years as the Band has undertaken initiatives to help it transition to the First Nations Land Management Act. The septic system upgrade project under the Provincial Groundwater Protection Act is a good example. SCOI held a Septic System Information Meeting in the summer of 2018 where over 350 cottagers showed up. We have posted all kinds of information on the SCOI website about this. The problem is that not every SFN cottage owner is a member of SCOI and not all cottage owners subscribe to the SCOI website. This year alone the SCOI website subscription list has grown from just over 300 to just over 700. SCOI membership is also growing, now at 688. There are about 1240 land lease holders.
We do know that most of the 1200+ lease holders talk to their cottage neighbours and for the most part do get some of the messaging. But everyone is vulnerable if they rely one second hand sources.
We feel responsible for getting pertinent information out to you. And we look for input so we can give the Band feedback.
There is a fairly large group of cottage owners who see our information as “fake news” and they certainly aren’t going to spend $10k on a new septic system based on what is written on the SCOI website. There is also a large subset of this group who chooses to do nothing because the band did not tell them directly and they aren’t going to go and ask the band because it might cost them $10k.
We now have the same problem with cottagers going to their cottage – “the Band didn’t tell me directly I couldn’t go.”
There is also a large group who choose not to even read the annual Land Management brochure when it comes out each year. Although it comes directly from the Band, cottagers still can’t seem to sort their recyclables according to the instructions provided.
Enough said. A one-way email system with all cottage owners’ would probably be the most efficient. SCOI will continue to press the Band to move in this direction.
Thanks for your attention. Keep those cards and letters coming.
Happy Mothers’ Day!
Be safe
Sorry, for minor typo, I think. Assume SCOI will ask the band for certain timing for the lease and services in 2021 at the end of 2020.
Otherwise, thanks for all you do and sorry some folks just don’t get the seriousness of this GLOBAL PANDEMIC.
Thanks Clayton. We have changed that to February 2021.
I don’t believe cottages on band land should be punished because others not on band land are not following the recommendation of the government. The cottages on band land are not visiting or going to their cottages. We are following the band request and the government recommdations.
Agreed! Deal with those that are the problem…
We aren’t the problem!
Furthermore, our family has done a great job opening our cottage independently for 29yrs, never missed a lease payment. Our septic was already inspected and prepared for 2021. We certainly would not want to harm the SFN in any way and we would not do so wether home or at our cottage. We know how to self isolate and do social distancing.
Time to let us go to OUR cottage.
Quick question. Has there been any talk as to why we should be paying the full lease and fee payment if we are not allowed to be at the cottage. Why should we pay the full fee payment if we’re not getting our garbage picked up etc. Please explain. Yes they say they are going to extend the season but I turn my water off in October….I’m not going to the cottage in Nov and December….who does?!
The SCOI Board will be discussing this at its next meeting.
On initiatives as important as the septic system upgrades, the Band should be communicating directly with the cottagers via registered mail, so that they have proof that every cottager has received the message ‘from the horses mouth’ and not heresay from neighbours. I know you’ll say ‘the band can do whatever they like, it’s their land’, but being transparent with everyone about what is required goes a long way, and quite frankly it’s all been quite cloudy. As you say, only about 350 out of 1200 cottagers attended the meeting on the subject, but had the full 1200 shown up, I doubt even 350 would have gotten a clear message. It would have been total chaos. There are other methods of communication rather than noisy meetings and websites.
John- if all cottages joined SCOI they could be informed and there would be an email address so they could get messages from SCOI.
No matter when the Band lifts these restrictions the risks will still exist and the impact on local grocery stores is already happening and will continue to happen.
It is responsible to manage risk but irresponsible to collect lease and maintenance fees and bar access. Ultimately, it is up to cottagers to determine if they want to take the risk. Personally, we are staying home for now.
Thanks for the update and thanks for all the work you do. I’m choosing to remain optimistic that despite others potentially going to their cottages, they will hopefully be keeping to themselves and won’t increase any numbers in the region.
Really looking forward to getting back up in June. Hope some headway can be made on the plumber discussions.
I see a very well organized COMMUNICATIVE group of VOLUNTEERS doing a great job keeping us informed. They are indeed advocating for cottagers and deserve our respect and appreciation. Answers are clear and concise. Careful guys! I may nominate you all to stand for office in the next provincial and federal elections! There’s a lot of bright minds and talent working on our behalf! Imagine the possibilities…
Thank you Donna for those kind words. As for elected office? Not in this lifetime – that takes a different kind of cat!
Thank you for all you do. This Q&A was outstanding and informative.
Thanks for the input!
I need a plumber to finish installing an alarm system for my holding tank. He is not turning my water on at the cottage although he is a plumber. Please let me know if he can do the work which McDonlad’s started to be complete. I have no intentions on going to my cottage. Thanks Gloria
Gloria, you will need to send an e-mail to Kirk Roote asking for permission for your plumber to do this. Tell him where your cottage is and what the plumber will be doing. We don’t see a problem because Kirk will already have issued a septic permit for this work. kirk.roote@saugeen.org
I want to compliment SCOI for the professional and thorough manner in which the COVID 19 situation has been handled. The updates and information are greatly appreciated. I too am frustrated that I can’t go to my cottage of 40 years, but completely understand how important it is for us to abide by the rules.
I was disappointed and in fact disgusted to read that you have had to deal with what constitutes abuse. I am hoping that this is a minority.
Please know that your efforts are recognized and have been extremely helpful.
Thanks for your kind words. Fortunately we have not had many abusive posts!
Thanks for your continued efforts on our behalf.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a high speed internet provider that works well in the French Bay Area?
I would also point out that the extension to time at the cottage into the fall is not applicable to cottages that are not insulated. The latest I can stay is October 1st and would expect our lease payments to be prorated on that basis. Please raise that point with the Band. I expect that is the vast majority of us that have to shut water off before the first frost
Finally if we are make health arguments and compliance with guidelines an issue, the band could make termination of the lease a penalty for those having large gatherings, and fine those not wearing masks in public places or not social distancing. We have that problem where we live but don’t think those that are following guidelines should be punished for the few that don’t.
Hi Jane
We use East Link. Their service is fantastic and the speed is better than we get with Bell Fibe at home.
Wendy
Thanks for this, Wendy. We have added them under a section of Internet Service Providers on our Local Contractors pageLocal Contractors page.
Thanks so much for this timely information and your ongoing efforts to keep us informed. I too was wondering when garbage pickup would resume and am concerned about attracting bears to bins which need emptying.
Thank you for the complete outline of the necessary news from SCIO. We appreciate all that you do to keep us informed.
Could you please add to the list of contractors: David Fowler, 519-387-3501 or by e-mail
l.l.fowler@hotmail.com – Lawn gardens and clean up
Thanks
Thanks kindly, Gary. He has been added.
Thank you, Donna. There are three primary communicators; Rob, myself as President and Kathie our web person. We are supported by a great board, composed of the presidents and one member of each of the four associations. I am, in fact married to a municipal politician and have managed a municipal election campaign so please understand when I say NO to your kind words.
I think you folks are doing a fantastic job of keeping all SCOI members informed during these difficult times. I am appalled that you have received abusive comments and even more appalled at the minority of ignorant people making racist comments. The Band is following the Health Departments guidelines, and that’s the bottom line. Keep up the good work!
A big thank you to SCOI.
You work so hard and we sure appreciate all your efforts.
What about insurance company feedback on insuring a cottage that the owner cannot go to and cannot be responsible for? My contract with them says we have to be there a certain number of days. I still wake up at night wondering what damage was done over the winter.
Thank-you for the much needed clarification. To have a good rationale behind decisions made, makes a difference in understanding why we are where we are, and what is to be considered when leasing on Crown land. If The Chief and Band Council are following recommendations from the Grey Bruce CMO, it doesn’t make sense to quote the Premier on this site any longer. It just confuses people. Municipalities decide for themselves what is best. That said, with Provincial Parks now open for day trippers, and cottagers on municipal land clearly defying stay at home recommendations, the towns are still going to be filled with non locals. How will SFN be protected even if we do our part? Perhaps the Saugeen Shores Mayor needs to step up and impose fines to those cottagers. Otherwise, we will continue to lose cottage access in the months to come if covid numbers go up, while others don’t. It’s very frustrating.
Also, I believe SFN cottagers by and large have the best interests of the community at heart. I hope those who have threatened legal action, really think about the bridges they may burn with the Band, and how that impacts the relations for the rest of us, not to mention next years’ lease negotiations. The pandemic is no one’s fault, but if we lose further months of cottage access, perhaps we should suggest that the Band consider no increases for the next round of lease renewals. There are ways to negotiate.
Finally, yes, please encourage the Band to communicate directly with cottagers via emails or letters as best they can. What is going to happen to SFN cottagers who are not reading this website and who will start to go to their cottages this month?
Thank you
Thank you for all you do! It is appreciated.
Thank you for all of the information you keep sending us. Not an easy job and I am sorry that you have to put up with abusive and racist comments. The band is making decisions that they feel are appropriate to keep everyone safe and the pandemic in check. Let’s remember this falls under a “1st world issue” problem of inconvenience. Let’s remember the people who are making real sacrifices during these times.
First I want to a Thank SCOI for the work you do. There is no way the Band could deal with 1200 individuals! There are special conditions that come with leased land including the fact you paid less to buy it. If you don’t like the restrictions then sell your cottage. As for those who are not informed about septics they should join SCOI so they would be informed and join the winter patrol so their cottage would be checked for insurance purposes.
I am appalled to hear that people have been disrespectful to SCOI and the Band. Covid is not their fault. Yes it is inconvenient and sad not to be at the cottage but at least we are hopefully healthy and keeping others that way. Looking forward to the day we can return.
I also want to thank SCOI – you have been doing a fabulous job at keeping us informed of issues – to the point of daily emails in some situations. You are volunteers and are absolutely amazing. As stated, we must follow the directions of Chief and Council and they are following directions of Grey Bruce Public Health. We have flattened the curve because we stayed home. A few more weeks and we will get to enjoy Lake Huron; just a little differently than previous years. Covid-19 has changed everything.
Two questions:
Is BRUCE telecom an allowed contractor?
Is contractor that does flooring from Hanover allowed?
I don’t think my previous email went through so that’s why I’m sending again.
Also, thank you for all the updates.
Bruce Telecom – we would assume they are OK
Hanover flooring – check with Kirk Roote. kirk.roote@saugeen.org
David and Rob,
Thank you and keep up the great work liaising with the Chief and Band Council to keep us informed. Anyone who contacts their local MP, clearly has not read their lease and does no understand this is out of the Bands control. They must also be oblivious to what is going on in the world and that MP’s maybe have more pressing issues – like managing a global pandemic and trying to keep Canadians safe and healthy.
I have done some research that shows that indigenous communities across Canada and the US have significantly higher incidences of immunodeficiency than average. Up to 60% in some cases. This has led to more aggressive restrictions across North America to protect their people. Decisions I respect and admire.
If cottagers in Saugeen cannot understand or support decisions like that, they have bigger issues than access to their vacation property.
I know you have both volunteered countless hours to keep us up to date.
From the bottom of our hearts, thank you and keep up the great work!
Jim & Angela Grant
Thank you for keeping us informed. I’m saddened to hear that there is bullying, racism and all round disrespect happening. These are unprecedented times and it will pass. Thank you to the Band for taking proactive measures to protect your community and thank you for allowing us cottagers to be a guest on your land.
Why does Band follow Ontario septic system regs, but suddenly says
we are governed Federally when Ford says you can go to your cottage May long weekend??
Indigenous Services Canada is the one that has to be satisfied that the Band is managing its lands appropriately, and both the Band and ISC are using the Ontario code for septic system upgrades.
The wording regarding cottage access “sometime in June” is concerning to me because there is community information out there already to suggests that beaches, marinas , camping etc will not be opening until later June at best. My concern is that the Chief and Band Council are going to wait for those openings before allowing us to go to our cottages. I don’t think that is right at all. Despite those late openings, many cottagers do not even use those community areas. They just prefer to remain on their property, enjoy the lakefront, do yard work or any projects that need to be done. June is considered cottage time for me no different than summer time. Can the Chief please try to show some flexibility and consideration to allow us on our properties with our immediate family for June 1st. We will follow all health recommendations as we do in our own communities , as suggested in. many previous posts. Thanks
Thank you for the update. I understand the need to pay the lease as it is a legal document between the two parties. However, since we are being denied access to our cottages at the moment and the actual access date is unknown, I feel that it is irresponsible to ask for a service fee at this time when there is no service. At least it should be modified to reflect the shorter season. I would also like to question the increase from $850 to $1000 this year. What is the justification?
Barbara,
There has already been considerable information shared earlier this year on service fees and the services provided by the Band. We suggest you use the search icon (home page, top right, magnifying glass) to look up service fees.
Everyone tends to equate service fees with garbage collection which is incorrect. There are many services that the Band provides year round to protect our property and give us access in the off season. But even if it was just garbage collection, cottage garbage collection was to have started just last week. So do you suggest we ask to be reimbursed for the one week? If not, why ask the question until we know what the full impact of the lockout will have on services provided by the Band. Once the lockout is lifted the SCOI Board will assess whether asking for a reimbursement is appropriate.
Barbara,
There has already been considerable information shared earlier this year on service fees and the services provided by the Band. We suggest you use the search icon (home page, top right, magnifying glass) to look up service fees.
Everyone tends to equate service fees with garbage collection which is incorrect. There are many services that the Band provides year round to protect our property and give us access in the off season. But even if it was just garbage collection, cottage garbage collection was to have started just last week. So do you suggest we ask to be reimbursed for the one week? If not, why ask the question until we know what the full impact of the lockout will have on services provided by the Band. Once the lockout is lifted the SCOI Board will assess whether asking for a reimbursement is appropriate.
The Province announced today May 14th , that as of Sat May 16th, all private parks and camp grounds, marinas, boat clubs, golf courses are opening, as well as
next Tuesday, all retail stores with street entrance can open. I cannot imagine at this point that we cannot go up to our private cottages now. This would make zero sense if we cannot, while all this is now open and other cottagers all over Saugeen Shores are going up this weekend, in addition to SFN cottagers who are not even on this website. Please confirm with the Chief is he is now willing to allow us to do the same as of this weekend. Thank you
Sue, as you are aware, the Chief announced last Friday on Facebook that he is hoping cottagers will be able to return to their cottages in June as long as the Grey Bruce Covid stats remain low. We expect him to make another Facebook appearance tomorrow to remind cottagers that the Band’s State of Emergency is still in effect and that cottagers will be fined and evicted if they choose to go to their cottage this weekend.